Afternoon Discussions & conversations after P Cartier arrival

0:00 The broad conceptual motivation, how it connects with Bill's drive for an alternative conception of the natural numbers, or alternatives, that was the thing which I particularly wanted to learn about, but I'll listen to, yeah, I actually asked Colin if he could try and pull the discussion around a little bit in that direction. Okay, where are they? I haven't got them. Okay, how's it going? Oh, I hope you thought that was a worthwhile... No, it's all right. I didn't think you were. I just wanted to... A bilateral. A bilateral, yes. No, no. That's okay. That's all right. You know, you make me feel like a bloody secret policeman, a secret police interrogator. That's true. Yes, I... I forgot what Angus has just been telling me. You know, he told us that he had a very productive afternoon. I hope you... I shall allow that. Well, once we've got it all edited down, you can look at it and decide what... Yeah, that's great. Well, that was what I wanted to happen. Anyway, managed to get everything sorted out for dinner and John and Mimi's stuff is in the hotel and chicken and with all the trimmings, basically. Chicken with parsnips and onions and garlic and potatoes and shallots and some wine and a rather nice raspberry flan for dessert. It's cooking now as we speak, yes, just started. That gives me such confidence. Well, Mimi, I've left Mimi entirely in charge in the kitchen, I know. Ah, okay. That is cooking as we speak. That gives me even more confidence. And she is directing John, and I think we shall be okay.

2:30 Anyway, they know where everything is. They reckon it will take about an hour, which should work perfectly because Pierre Cartier should be here around, actually I think he'd be here within the next half an hour. I think what we'll do is, well seven people, obviously we can't take the big table up here. We could take the small one but it won't be enough so I think we'll just eat in the courtyard. Well actually split into three, that's true, we probably could. Well I didn't particularly... It's not important to me at all, it's just that when I hear it can't... That's... Yeah, that's doable. Well, I, let's, let's see. Let's see. What a conceptual take on Bill's, the connection of the whole technical apparatus of the O-minimum program with Bill's. There's a desire to recon, you know, recon, you know, reconcentralize. Well, and especially since you mentioned it, they first said that Bill was like, hmm, well, and Angus gave the first answer in a very nice, you know, and then it got the thing rolling. ...finally got the damn car keys, and I just thought, besides, you know, I'm kind of pulling Greg out now to keep him happy, so I don't want to... Well, I was the one who put them there, not your fault. Oh, okay. No, we're not. But that's the one place which is always, in your life, guaranteed. Exhaust plants? Uh, yes, yes, there are big exhaust plants. Hang on, I'll show you. Yeah, they're actually here.

5:00 No, I don't know anything now. Maybe once in a while. I'll take it over. You know, of course, they have all these pathetic B-list, well, not B-list, more of a sort of, you know, sort of J-list celebs who are desperate to try and, you know, kick-start their moribund careers. And they all volunteer now to go on these celebrity chef's programmes and to be put in the kitchen and they're ordered... Why don't you use some scissors? Yeah, I've got scissors.

7:30 The problem is that they mean white pepper or black pepper. No, they mean grey pepper. But there isn't grey pepper. No, they just mean... they mean... Well, there is that kind... No, yes, there is. I mean, pepper looks grey. I mean, it doesn't look quite black. But they call it poivre noir. Well, I suppose it means ground prepper in that case. It means ground as to distinguish it from... I don't know what the distinction is, don't ask me, I have to admit that is one topic which has never kept me awake at night. No, I'm afraid that's one topic that has never preoccupied me. It puts me in mind of a wonderful old Bill Tidy cartoon from years ago. Do you remember Bill Tidy? He did have some very, very funny cartoons. So unlike most cartoonists, he was very good at literary jokes as well as at the visual impact. And there's one splendid one, you know, the way that the picture tells an entire story. The Gates of Heaven, you know, from St. Peter. And there is this, he's obviously a complete nerd, I mean, from the way he's dressed. It says it all. The leather elbow patches. And that was Angus's gift to me. Very nice of him. Yeah, very kind of him. Very generous. Very nice. Single malt. One of my favourites. Signatory. Anyway, he's just arrived at the gates of heaven. It's obvious from the way he's dressed he's a total nerd. And St. Peter's.

10:00 You've got him kind of rolling his eyes. Well, I suppose he wants to say, heaven is up. Oh, God, is that what I'm going to have to do? Obviously, we'd like to run away from the guy who's going to become the club whore of heaven, but no chance, because obviously they're the life of a completely subdued virtue. He's just launching this tirade of questions as he walks together. Now, now, before we start, I want to know what did happen to the Maurice Lester? Did he kill Kennedy? Who was Jack the Ripper? Now look Michael, which one do you want to put it on? The bottom one, the right hand one. No, that's the left one. It's pretty obvious what they are when you turn them on. And they're hot as hell, so be careful here. Have you got... No, I'm going to put the water in. Yeah, well be careful. By the way, very important, with that tap I should have mentioned... There, you're fine now. But if you're ever using that tap, be very careful, because that is hot and it's absolutely scalding hot. If you put your hand under that, you can really scald it badly. It is extremely hot. No, not this. But that's cold. And if you run it when it's on full hot, it is absolutely scalding hot. So be careful. Gosh, but you didn't scold yourself. No, well you were lucky, but I should have warned you. That's what it should be. So that is hot and will be absolutely scolding, so be careful. With my... Well, I thought we were going to have it with the chicken, weren't we? I don't know, isn't it? We should throw some garlic in there. Yeah, we should throw some garlic in with the chicken, shouldn't we? That's what I normally do. I mean there may be some, these electric elements are sort of super hot, there's gas out of it, it's funny going down to the left. Yeah, well be careful, but the thing is that will get it down guys, it looks absolutely gorgeous. It's going very well, it's going very nicely, but it has to be turned down, so the gas up and you leave it on at 500, see for, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't, you have to turn that down, you need to be careful. I think I'm going to give up on finding you the other source, but I'm afraid we'll just have to manage with the little find back there. I do have them, but I just don't know where they are.

12:30 Do you know where I think they might be? There were two or three boxes of kitchen stuff, but because this kitchen is the one bad thing feature in the house, it's got this stupid range in the wrong place. And not much storage space, not much cupboard space, and I think I put, because obviously living on my own I wasn't going to need all these cooking things, I think when I moved in about, I don't know, nearly two years ago, I actually put two or three boxes of stuff which were kitchen things from my old house up in the attic, and the extra saucepans are probably amongst them. Have we lost? Sorry, what was the question? Has he died or something? Don't tell me he's come... Don't... Don't tell me... Oh no, that's a different Polanski, definitely a different Polanski. This guy... Do you think they might invite him to become a character witness for Michael Jackson? Well, I hate to say it, but you know... Talk about the kiss of death! Yeah, I hate to say it, I hope they don't invite... I hope they don't ask Kreisel to become a character witness for him. Well, you know, Kreisel had a reputation for trying very young. I was wondering, was it just some kind of bravado? It probably was, but even so, the fact that he chose to flourish that kind of bravado was... I never liked that. No, actually, I didn't either. But, er... But then, it's clearly a very good... Yes, this is the... Actually, he was never up close to me, but I was beneath... You know, people who were really, really beneath his attention. I don't think he bothered. You could afford, a bit like Hitler and his secretaries, who all went around saying, you know, Osef, you're a boss. The man had an ego that you could build a skyscraper on a shelf. It's not like, you know, I mean, he just had this gigantic, and he was arrogant.

15:00 Oh, I know, everybody knows it. I've seen him. I've heard him give seminars and reply to questions. And there was one wonderful occasion in Oxford about 10 years ago. He gave a talk in Oxford. And to be honest, obviously I'm not the one to judge, but all the same, I've heard other people much better equipped to judge say it as well, quite understand why he had such a great reputation. And, you know, did he really do anything that fundamental, that important, that great? By comparison with... Certainly, by comparison with Gödel or back in the... No, no, no, Gödel, but to be fair, I think Gödel, I think Gödel, this willfully obscure way of writing he had, this sort of kind of performance he gave, Kreisel, was rather detrimental to... I mean, he did discuss the genuinely interesting work he did, but he was never, he was never mainstream at mathematical logic. He's actually a kind of philosopher, but he didn't want to be identified. Well, Panik is a good constatant, and he made a good sense of it, but I still can see what was so great about him, to a large extent, it seems to me, to be stating the line a little. There was a little posturing, frankly, in his mind, because he is a guy, I am a genius, you see, and the fact is that he did obscure the interesting things he did, which weren't... But you have to remember, he's not really a mathematician in that sense. No, no, by no means in that sense. He's closer to a sort of... Somebody like Saul Featherman or... No, no, Featherman's a... no, no, no, no, no, no. No, but he's somebody very interested in philosophy. Yes, but I know that. But no, no, I think Clausen was actually, in certain respects, rather closer to the kind of Wittgenstein type thing. Yeah, because Wittgenstein, who of course, he... I really think he... He did everything possible to trash Wittgenstein's reputation. No, I heard him ten years ago give a talk in Oxford and mark an island. Ask him a question, and he gave an extremely kind of patronising reply, you know, the sort of, well, at least, you know, the sort of, well, it's just there's some evidence that your question is not entirely idiotic, I suppose, to be able to answer it, and at the end of it, Martin said with absolute perfect timing, they told me you'd mellowed.

17:30 No, it was said very nicely. You know, I'm going to see an old friend of mine in Cambridge, you may know. That does look good, actually, I have to say. Do you know John Donne, the political... Hang on, this is... He's a professor of politics. Yes, I know he is, yeah. I went to a couple of his lectures a long, long time ago. He wrote a book about, oh Christ, what did he write about? As you say he's a professor of political philosophy and ethics. I went to a couple of his lectures and didn't know him personally. We used to know each other in school. He was part of that Quentin Skinner crowd. I had lost him in school. He was very nice and I wrote to him and said I made Cambridge. I'm just going to check. I haven't checked to see whether Cartier might possibly have run. I think I might. Yes, there's loads of them. Do you need one? Yes, I know we don't. Look, we have got other ones. There are also lots of them in the dishwasher too. Oh, okay. That's okay. You're going to have to sort out the cutlery. Yeah, I hope you're probably going to have enough. I hope. And I'm also going to have to sort out the table and the table linen, which is the next order of business.

20:00 I hope that's not Pierre Cartier now. I'd rather he gave us another half an hour actually, just need to get these properly cleaned, and then put the big table out in the courtyard and camp it. Ooh, camp it! It's a bit hot. No, no. Oh, I see. Oh, it was that, wasn't it? I thought it was the stomach, because you start your fingers at the top. Where's the, uh, oil? The what? Cooking oil. Cooking oil? Or olive oil? Oh, no, there is olive oil. It's over there. Damn, damn, damn. We should have got something, wouldn't we? Sorry, we always remember things at the last minute. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I haven't had a chance to go round and check out the... I don't think that... I think that place will be closed now, anyway. Um, what is the time? Oh, yeah, that would be great. We'll just have to manage that olive oil, I'm sorry. Well, no, I need to fry it completely. Shit! What the hell did you say? Wait a minute, there probably is some... No, you can't do it. No, you can't do it. Well, it is... Wait a minute, there may be olive oil, just give me a second. I'm sorry, you should... I mean, you have to appreciate this. This lady bachelor doesn't cook for seven... Wait a minute. Yeah, hang on, what's that? No, no, that's better. For Christ's sake, don't... Thank you for watching. Just let me look underneath here, I may be able to find some olive oil. Can you back off and let me go down on my knees here? And I may be able to find some olive oil for you. Ah, Howard, it's just beginning to look a bit worse.

22:30 That's for tossing salads and things. Actually, I've got a great big thing there for tossing salads. I don't suppose that helps, because we're not going to toss any salads tonight, are we? Well, I mean... I know where the glasses are John, I just need, oh wait a minute, what's here? Hang on, here's your, oi, oi, what's that? I found that. Oh you found that, you found that, okay. And sea salt. We've got past the salt. Okay, so you know where the salt and pepper is. Don't worry about it. Well, it's annoying. I've got to bask. It doesn't look as if I've got any... Oh, wait a minute. What's that? No, you're right. That's one indefinitely not to be carried. We definitely need some olive oil. Haricot beer. Which, if only we were okay in one tiny room, it wouldn't have been much use for seven people, I believe, unless you're Jesus Christ, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, well, you know, like, the monocle is good. Yeah, well, like, there's no work here, it's not like... No, no, no, you don't need it tonight, we'll deal with it. Okay, okay. I think I'm going to open a bottle of wine and have a glass. I think you need to open another. Oh, can't we have a glass of wine? Well, I can open the rosemary, as they say. What did you do? Did you put it all in the fridge? Well, no, you couldn't have done that. No, I... No, you couldn't have done that. Oh, it's over there. It's okay. Put the milk in the fridge, though. Sorry, Colin. Well, yes, that would be a good... Okay. Okay, um... Colin, sorry. Something very scary happened. Right, okay, we'll see you shortly. But just keep your ears peeled for the bell in case he does come, which he probably will.

25:00 He gave a general theory of angles, which would be maps, and he made up a question for you. You don't have to learn to do that, although it's not... Because had they decided to do that...

1:02:30 Well, rightfully, it would have been more stupid, but he was not going to...

1:15:00 Rightfully, it would have been more stupid, but he was not going to... He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. He was going to laugh at it. Well, let's get ready to come to the bill if anybody wants to vote.