FW Lawvere / BJ Hiley Birkbeck College, London 2003
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Recorded at Birkbeck College, London (2003), featuring FW Lawvere, BJ Hiley. From the Michael Wright Collection, held by the Archive Trust for Research in Mathematical Sciences & Philosophy.

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Michael Wright Collection
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Archive Trust for Research in Mathematical Sciences & Philosophy
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This transcript was generated by speech-recognition software from an archival recording and has not been hand-corrected. It will contain recognition errors — particularly for proper names and technical terminology — so please verify against the audio before quoting. Timestamps play the recording from that moment.

0:00 I was amazed how rapidly I steered it for years. I think you see a giant tunnel somewhere out here. I'm so terrified right now. I was really terrified about the idea of driving. But I hope you enjoyed this video. Thanks for watching. If the steering wheel is on the correct side, it's easy, what's difficult is when you're driving a U.S. car, when you're driving a car, you're driving a U.S. car, you're driving a U.S. car. I should have asked you sooner because I need someone to drive my removers now. It's alright, I've actually got some. No, no, we should go across on the ferry, but it's only going to be a short one, so we're going to take one stop and see where all the other people are going to go, so we're going to take a short break. Thank you very much. Yes, yes. My daughter and me, when we were living in Paris, we were going to a strange school. And you have these cool trips that you can make up, and they're cool things, and I like to keep you in mind there. Those things are here in Rennes, France, France, Asia, and the other part of the world.

2:30 So, it's about 25 minutes. Rennes, R-E-N-N-E-S. Oh, not Rennes, not Rennes. No, it's Rennes, Rennes, Rennes. Yeah, that's right. So, it's a lovely city, and I'm sure it's the capital. Keep them, keep them, keep them, keep them, lots of notes. So the Dukes of Britain here, the German that we've heard. Oh, I'm sorry, yes, I am.

5:00 Yes, I'd just like to take this one as well, if you put the foreign policy of King Henry VII on it. My impression is that the country ought to be, you know, in cohesion with it. Well, at least we've made it back! I don't think we have any choice in the matter. I think Joan of Arc picked us on our behalf. But anyway. Whatever happens, they've been based on a problem, but not only that, they can carry it forward. There are also a number of different fields of study, such as mathematics, geometry, algebra, mathematics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physics,

7:30 Speakers include mathematics, geometry, algebra, analysis, quantum mechanics, physics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics,

10:00 The only thing about this report is that it's a beacon. It's got a lot of different things involved in it, so, yeah, I think it's going to be interesting. I'm sure we're going to receive a lot of questions, and it's going to be a lot of fun. I think it's going to be interesting to see what we can do with it, because I don't know the amount, and it's going to be great. I think it's going to be a lot of fun, and it's going to be a lot of fun. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Good luck to them. Yeah. And in the meantime, John, as he is coming to the forum, I should ask you some questions. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Some of them are very important to us. Speakers include mathematics, geometry, algebra, mathematics, physics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, mathematics, physics, There are a number of different fields of study, including mathematics, geometry, algebra, mathematics, physics, physics, and mathematics.

12:30 There are a number of different fields of study, including mathematics, geometry, algebra, mathematics, physics, and mathematics. There are a number of different fields of study, including mathematics, geometry, mathematics, physics, and mathematics. There are a number of different fields of study, including mathematics, geometry, mathematics, physics, and mathematics. There are a number of different fields of study, including mathematics, geometry, mathematics, physics, and mathematics. There are a number of different fields of study, including mathematics, geometry, mathematics, physics, and mathematics. I don't know what the job is. I'm not sure I would prefer all my popular movies on Netflix. Disgusting, isn't it? Disgusting, isn't it? Thank you for watching. Speakers include mathematics, geometry, algebra, analysis, quantum mechanics, physics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics, Thank you for watching this video, I hope you enjoyed it, and I will see you in the next one.

15:00 There are a number of different types of people involved in the project, such as scientists, mathematicians, mathematicians, mathematicians, mathematicians, mathematicians, mathematicians, mathematicians, mathematicians, mathematicians, And of course, you can come through the course, and you've got all the little jargon you can spend, and of course, they're all there, and they're all there, and they're all there, and they're all there, and they're all there. In the case of the first lecture, we studied one of the characteristics of mathematics, which is the gravitation. So I think it was about the version from the original book called People and the Gravitas, which tends to be one of the gravitation groups, and it's a parallel system. So it's a parallel system. So it's a parallel system. So it's a parallel system. So it's a parallel system. So it's a parallel system. There are many different types of mathematics in the world of physics, such as quantum mechanics, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, quantum mechanics of the universe, Thank you for your attention. Well, you have better, you have, you have better instinct now, now, I think, while you wish to go on and have more instincts, but anyway, the, uh, the idea of being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, being, uh, Thank you for your attention.

17:30 I wasn't there. The person who was in front of my building was Professor John Hector on the 6th, and the last number I had, maybe, was the sister of Professor John Hector, and I tried to bring him to class when I was over in Paris, but he wasn't there, and I didn't see him any longer, so he was a very good character. Thank you for your attention. Thank you for your attention. I have a simple question for you David. I was listening to you during our meeting which was interesting because I was looking at what you were talking about or about you know his latest technique called, you know, And the extraordinary thing is that people who thought that he was a canon, that he was a canon, that he was a hero, that he was a myth or something, that he is to the rest of the human race, he isn't a canon, or he isn't a student, he isn't a student, he isn't a canon, he isn't a canon, he isn't a canon, he isn't a canon, he isn't a canon, he isn't a canon, he isn't a canon, The second thing is, you're not quite good at all.

20:00 Thank you very much for your attention and I hope to see you in the next lecture. Thank you for watching. Thank you for your attention. I saw him. He walked back. Thank you for watching this video, if you liked it please subscribe and hit that like button.

22:30 Thank you for your attention. Thank you for watching. And this only came out later. So, when you got the letter saying, oh, we haven't paid our hotel bill yet, which caught me in a perfect circle, and instead of making about £10,000, I ended up with £10,000, because I had to do the replay. Now, I did eventually get the money out of the hotel, but it was not that easy, but anyway, it took me almost two years. You're very lucky, they could have bought it at the end of the 19th century, because they could always have bought it at the end of the 19th century.

25:00 There was actually no way that we should have ever re-encouraged them. What? Because at the end of the day, what could have happened is that I knew it. There are several scenarios where you're sort of not clear. Thank you for watching. Thank you for watching this video, if you liked it please subscribe and hit that like button. No, no, they had already been paid the money, but I had already paid the money, of course. He went in and said, look, the territory is very advanced, but the tour has now been cancelled and therefore these books are no longer of any value to us, can we have our money back? So they were very obliged and said, well, you know, it's very technical, but of course we're going to stay away from it. I didn't get anything from Brian, but I'll probably get it to you all. Meantime, I'm going to take a break now. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. I'm going to go to the end of my talk. We have a lot of parallel symbols that can be used to explain the human movement of the time on Earth.

50:00 You have no reason to have an examination. You have what, three? No, just a few. You have a supervisor who can do all the work. I thought Chris was actually looking around. No, he's not. He's not going to be on the exam. He's not the supervisor. Well, he can be, but he's not the supervisor. Because I was trying to get hold of him. No, no. He said he was going to be on the exam. Yeah, that's what happened. It would be better to have one more day away from that, so we can go off to eat until evening and we can go out to work. Yeah. No, I'm not going to talk about it. I'm just saying. It's a story, isn't it? Good. We've got to go to sub-breeding for lots of fish and things like that. I mean, that's fine.

52:30 I feel like if I was really critical of it, I'd say that you should not have been there. We could get new science out of it. So then they can't be taught to find that knowledge. No, I think that's pretty good. I think that's pretty good. I think that's pretty good. Let's see, is this one of these non-communicative photos? No, it's just... Because there aren't any actual... None. I mean, none that have been... That's the problem. There's no problem. It doesn't work. Do you remember there was that kind of character pose that became sort of standard for film. Yes, I do. Nice guy, but his construction was something. Trying to replace the suboptic character style with, what was it, a marginalised? Well, he said it would be something even more central. All of these things have no mathematical or mathematical derivation, they're just taking two things and classifying, that's exactly what it is. We're trying to get the so-called superstars to put the confidence that they know about mathematics. I'm playing around with the topos acting because it's just not going to be good enough at all. I think what's happening is really exciting in the topos theory. The topos are the ones that are far too early. Thank you very much for your time. The only thing they have done is they did a collection of clickers there and showed how it comes out of, you know, especially how it comes out with the failure of global detection, you know, by taking some of these performative figures.

55:00 There's nothing to do with that to be sure. If you don't put logic into so much of it, it comes out. That's precisely what these people do. That's precisely the problem. And that's what they're trying to do. And that's the only spot I think Jeremy and Chris are trying to do. They're trying to plot the problem. Rational reasons to classify as something else, you know, I was very frustrated. I was very weak. I mean, this is really just like, thank you. We don't have a couple of things. We don't have a couple of things. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's all right. Mix and pick, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I can't. I don't understand. I don't know, but that is how I'm afraid Jeremy is. And I know Jeremy is up and about because he's a lovely, bright guy. He's a mash-mask, just like I am. But he always is. He's a nice guy. No, he's a very modest guy. He's genuinely modest, and he's a very, very bright guy indeed. And he knows a great deal of physics, and he's a very, very tough guy. He's, you know, he's, he learns from us. He's done some of the things that I've done, and I don't think that he's got to. People should be taught to do mathematics, not name-dropping. Well, it would be on the Fed, it's fine, but then there's that stuff with those other stuff, name-dropping. I know. But there are a lot of people who deserve that. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't sit and write long-distance name-dropping.

57:30 There have been papers on simple theory and Conrad Lorenz. Yeah, well... I really do want to defend Germany and Butterfield, because I think that they're not anything like remotely in that. And I, you know, my confidence is worrying me. Do you reject the features of a project doing that, where the poor guy doesn't know any of that? Well, really, it's the supervisor who should have been... Not precisely. ...for a razor-toed side of the head. But you're not going to give him out of the future's pocket. No, I mean... But not with more guys. Not with more... Well there could well be a good reason to do it, but you don't give it. Or there could be, or there needn't be a reason to do it. Tell me then about this converse that's going on in the rest of it. In the rest of it? Yeah, in fact there is a smile still. Well, there's a film called Neil Downey that excited me. It's a meeting apparently with all the British and Scottish theoretical computers. Theoretical computers. Theoretical, you're right.

1:00:00 On the theme of our defense, I was very angry when I called British, they're very happy. They even have one that gets called John, because they've never called him anything. So apparently this is some kind of yearly meeting. Actually, when you said you were driving to India under the pretext that you didn't have to do anything, you were invited here. This is a very informal meeting, this is repeated several times, but then during the year there are various things that come up, like deadlines for abstinence, and so on, but first it's done less, and that's the way it is. Oh dear. Which reminds me, but one of the things I must say to you while you're out there, you know, next few days, is go through... Thank you for your attention. Thank you very much for your time. I mean, I went to Ireland actually last year. I did. And you got to the Aran Islands, didn't you? Yes, I did. But that was the Irish that you found there. Ah, that's interesting. And then I went on to... He's quite a character, yes. He recently submitted something to the category mailing list, which the moderator decided not to air, because it was just too gushingly.

1:02:30 Thank you very much for your time, and I hope to see you again soon. Click on this, click on poetic aspects, click on the Aristotelian aspects, click on the Platonic aspects. Each of these things, there's one line about what he's planning to say. I understand you sympathize with this. Yes, of course. You can sympathize, but we're not to the grace of whatever you want. I think it was even he had told me that I and Steve Sandiloff should come to Ireland this summer for the summer course. He's now cancelled that. In other words, he hasn't gotten it together. But in any case, I didn't mind to meet them. I met the whole gang in Galway. And then I went to Denmark and did a lot of other stuff. So basically, you know, I had this idea. For 30 years I've had this question. What does theoretical computer science have to do with computers? Nobody's ever answered this. But in the meantime, I've learned category theory rather well. Even though they know no mathematics. In the future, you see that someday they'll be in a better position, so therefore I'm encouraging them. On that basis, none of the bases didn't have anything to do with computers.

1:05:00 You know, Eilenberg's idea was that this was an occasion for doing some algebra. Yes, a very, very sensible idea. Maybe a little cynical, but hopefully realistic. Thank you. Well, the bad part is that, meanwhile, there is a pressing problem of what to do about theoretical computer science. It needs to be initiated sometime, because no doubt theory would be a hell, and even more, no doubt category theory is the ideal framework for any such theory. How is it? It's good. Thanks a lot. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. You know, infinite topos, if it's mine, possibly what they mean is semantics for programming languages and all that. Iris is going to ask you this. It's a pretty good idea. I knew it. So, but there's also an automata theory, well, in a quite small branch, at least in mathematics. I'm going to work on that. Mm-hmm. See Barry J at the Edinburgh Museum. He said all the people who were doing theoretical numeric science in the U.K. because there's a very, there's a big community of people doing theoretical numeric science in the U.K. and they've been using a lot of text. Oh, yeah. That's the next minute. Oh, yeah. And then you fly back to my original house, 60, I think, yeah. And in fact, he's got a good turnout.

1:07:30 Oh, I did tell you that Angus MacIntyre is coming, didn't I? Is he going? That Angus MacIntyre is coming. Oh great, he's ready to come. Oh yes, yes, very much so, not only that, but he's the first person to send me an abstract of his talk. Ah, I see that. Yes, I'll bring it along to work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, that's very good. Yeah, it's very good, yeah. He's very excited about that. He's looking at us all the time. So, you know, it's just the same. How much he's looking forward to that. Bill and I were speculating this morning, having talked about that term, the term, the tap of the centric, rich millionaires. Ooh, they might want to put some money in. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Research and foundations in mathematics and physics, and in don't at the same time have some more or less open or concealed agenda, political or religious or financial. Not many of them around, there were more of them on the 19th century. I'm hoping this Swedish herbalist can come up because he was already asking me about it. I thought he was supposed to be organising a meeting, or at least getting me to help him to organise a meeting, but I just can't raise it. We have paid money to us before. I mean, here's a bit of a portion of it. The point is, if he's got money, he wants to put into a small meeting.

1:10:00 I mean, he hasn't got some, you know, seriously questionable agenda, yeah. No, he hasn't got any agenda. You must ask Barry Smith, assuming you occasionally speak to him, what was his friend, the uncle, as I assume he is at the present, would-be absolute, thinking of his nephew's agenda, for the out-and-out restoration. Well, considering that Barry Smith has the Hapsburg Eagle at his front door, he should have a view on that then. Is he flying a kite or is he out for lunch? Does it a bit of both? Not only does he have a hood of arms on his office door, he has a map of Europe on his wall inside. Which is the Europe, Europe equated to that first. All right. That should do it. Oh, you remember, we talked about... I don't know my name. Owls, owls, owls. We talked about Schwarzenberg. We did indeed, I remember it very well. Castles and lands. And the Czech Republic, indeed. Well, and elsewhere. And various myths that the peasants will be better off. Of course, the peasants are always so happy. It's one of the great persistent themes of reactionary. Marx, of course, had a great part of that experience. No, the young England reaction was this idea that of course the peasants were so blissfully happy on the beautiful padlock because of course they had all that sense of layers of leaves that unlike the roosters.

1:12:30 In England, in the case of English reactionary ideology, this took a very particular form, which was of the very different from what we've seen in France, which was much more introductory, or in the sort of ideology of axioms and sayings, and quite locally, actually. Movements like that, but in England it took the form of this extreme sentimentality about the rural gender of the world, as opposed to, let's do a great back-and-forth, who were the pillars of that, because they were, of course, from the life of the people, not as completely detached, but French people were so closely in touch with them. There's boys who have to play together and have to go to school if necessary in wartime to fight together and they want to be in a great group. They're rubbing shoulders in the magnificent equality of death that makes today an important memorial. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I apologize. Remember, these were the people who made the mistakes which did result in their being able to fail at the end.

1:15:00 The English, of course, were that much smarter, so I didn't mean to make you feel ill, but one has to analyze the reasons why they were so much smarter. Oh, yeah, I'll go down there. Well, I think I must have the math in here with all the red coins. It looks like swimming. Well, George Orwell cut his teeth. That's right. I do apologize. I understand. My close colleague, Miles Kierkegaard, and his son, who was killed, was a TV reporter in the Sierra Leone State. Oh, yeah, that was a few years ago. No, I remember the name of it. I don't know why it was familiar, but now I understand why. In fact, he had the same name, Miles Kierkegaard. The circumstances of his death, to me, To Justin, that he had simply been a martyr to the father of propaganda for the military. Now what was his teeth cover, you know, you were going to talk about this morning. Where is his teeth cover? Well, Justin, this was the first part of the underwear of any sort of, you know, first underwear of what the British military had clearly negotiated all of what...

1:17:30 Ten years before, we received a kind of impossibly strong cultural and military intervention in Africa and went in on the back of a fabricated pacifist that they were just standing in the house, an extraction operation, just in order to get, you know, the workers and civilians out and the House of Commons was formally assured that there was not going to be any question of mission crew. The 150, maybe 300 blocks of parametrics were just going to go in there as long as it took an absolute maximum term of mathematics to stabilise the situation for long, around 3,000, for long enough, to expand. And six, nine months later, there was a Breguet mirror, that's 3,000, 3,000, isn't that correct? There was a British minister of the country, there was a British commissioner of police, there was a British advisor to every ministry, it was effectively the whole country was being colonized, it was being run, the last shot and deco by the British. And they got away with it, I mean there was no serious media attention. It was even being said on the internet and websites. There are real moments by a certain faction in those few events who have done this, not just to see what they could get away with, having looked at what the French showed, but also if it had been deliberately good to put the finger up to an address, that may have been nonsense, that may just have been, but the line that was coming across the top. This was a very tentative, turn the water, you know, suck it and see in a small and naturally very self-contained arena, to see what would happen if it really did, that was very important to the economy, that was absolutely important to the economy, for humanitarian reasons, of course, of course, if you think about it, essentially, we are rediscovering liberal economics, of course we don't call it that, but it essentially is a humanitarian mission, Mr. Glassman would have done what we are doing.

1:20:00 And also, we're doing this, and you do realize how irritated Americans are of what we're doing, right? You realize this is, you know, really, you know, Blair being very European and putting one finger up with Americans. And then, 18 months later, well, less than that, there was Serbia, and now we're in Iraq. Yeah, of course. That was a slightly, although I'm sure that was planned well in advance, that that... My guess is that that was more responsive, that was, yeah, that was more, uh... If you're following that theme, if you're developing, then that was good. There was a good excuse for that. Yeah. But the excuses only get thinner and thinner. Oh, yeah. The lines, on the other hand, started out as outrageous as, you know, you could get right at the beginning. And the fact that they got away with it, in the end, that's what I meant by saying that it was the best page. Thank you, sir. And that I suspect was why Miles turned around and got too close to Hans, particularly since he was blue. You see, I just don't think the start of SAS mind is that there's any way that he wasn't allowed to go down there. It's completely under British control. It was accommodated in the same jeep by the information minister, and as soon as the assassins... With two SAS miners? Yeah. The soldiers who were with them did nothing to stop these assassins until they had done their work, and then... The information minister, the information minister escaped without a scratch, didn't he? Yeah, of course.

1:22:30 I mean, quite honestly, you have to be, you know, you really have to believe in the truth about it. What you must do if you come to talk to Michael, which I'd like you to do. There's a chap called David Price of Jones, who used to be one of the chief reporters for the BBC World Service, who runs his own private music, who has a debate with himself many years ago, do you remember the time of the, do you remember in 1980, just after the Iranian war, the Iranian embassy in London was bombed by a group of terrorists, who were actually marshals. Except they weren't from southern Iraq, they were from the Iranian side of the border.

1:25:00 This really started to go into high gear very much. I was then in business with a friend of mine who had been a friend of mine for 10 years. And he was Iranian by birth, but his mother was foreign. He was a completely Anglo-Saxon. Very, very. This was before I became involved with his business project. But he had been an old friend. He... I don't know if you've ever heard of him. When did he... Did I follow? ...was in exile in the mid-19th century, for a very nice story, a long time ago, I suppose. Okay. Pardon? Something else? Uh, between the 17th and 18th century. I'll ask you a question. Um, he invited... This chap must have been in the 17th century. Um, um, he just went up wondering... Would you like to talk about the 17th century? I don't know what kind of... No, no, no, no, this is not Michael Raythead. No, it doesn't sound much like him. No, no, no. Michael Raythead, Michael's agenda, there are a lot of Michaels around in this script, I must say.

1:27:30 Even with two wines in my glass. I don't think Michael Raythead. I can't quite make the connection. I have to say, the idea of Michael Raythead and the idea of him sitting down on the grass in this, I shall say, is wonderful, it's a realistic renex I can imagine. I wish we could. But anyway, well, this is the parents of Michael Stokes, and anyway, he won't happen, and he's a certain thing, which is why we've got to return him back to life. And Michael Dawkins, if you look at him, like Gavis, he's a really heavy innovationist, and that had happened just after the revolution. He's later swept aside by a group of hard-liners, and he won't happen, he's stuck with very little to do. He spent about half an hour talking with them. Many of them played it. And Grace, and did his last concert with Grace, and he met this girl called Lucia, who'd been married, and the world went round and round. Stunning, didn't it? Stunning, didn't it? She was quite stunning. I'm sorry. And he actually literally saw her on the front cover of the news magazine. I think she was on the front cover of the news magazine. But anyway, I tried to cut to the chase. She married Michael, came back to us a little bit. If you remember, initially, when he went back after the fall of the shark, after the initial fall of the shark, there was a kind of... The line was that... It was very much the line that... The media were put in, were taken, for a brief period, for a brief period, of course.

1:30:00 Yeah, well, they were, but it tends to be, you know, they were so feminine. They thought they were going to find them. They usually do find them. This guy, well, no, no, no, they didn't think the committee was going to be there very well, I'm not correct. I don't think they were ever that good. I don't think Jimmy Carter was that good. But, anyway, this girl knew she came to England, but because she wanted to find those things, she was worried about what would happen to her family. You know, while she did, she went to work with you in the embassy. And she, of course, was there when the embassy adopted her, and she was one of the last to do it, so she was rescued. But I don't believe in the ASX idea. Afterwards, I, because I was very close to Michael, and we became business partners for that sort of thing, and sadly, he committed suicide about six or seven years ago. He had, I believe, but that was a long way in the future then. Because of the cellars were placed on a cellar's knife, it turned out that it was a very strange character who had befriended Michael about three months or so. He purported to be a lawyer who worked for Amnesty International and who was interested in the field of rights and he investigated the field of rights by doing so. This guy was around there just day and night, trying to take control of the whole system. And I don't know of Michael, and Michael's glyph I'm telling you is much more developed than I am.

1:32:30 He is very smart, and he would have been quite successful if he was still trying to figure out, you know, who's spook he was, what he was looking for. And after Lucian came out, they were whisked off to Malaga, and then to the Canary. And on the way back, they were approached on the, and basically, a long vacation, keep their mouths shut, absolutely, about anything that she knew she had actually seen or heard while she was inside, you know, in particular what had happened at the end. But Nushin did call, and I am in absolute no doubt, I thought it was a good thing. The guys who went into the embassy, who were portrayed in the time of the media as students of the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists, the Marxists,