Discussions, incl. FW Lawvere / C McLarty / A Peruzzi

0:00 Oh, hello, is that Bill? That's okay. Well, to be quite honest, I've been in the wars, slightly. Um, to cut a long story short, nothing more boring than listening to recitals of people's ailments, but it seems I've probably got to have a heart bypass operation. That may yet turn out to be my case as well, I hope. They're going to let me know in about two to three weeks. I had, well, I was having episodes of blackouts and various other problems and it came to a head in the early part of last month, in January, to go into hospital and they diagnosed very extreme hypertension, now seems to have been got pretty well under control because they've given me these drugs which have brought it right down, so it's now at normal level, or even slightly. ...slightly below, it's down to 14 over 8, which is quite normal. At one point it was 18 over 10, which is a really pretty danger level, but they're going to do some more tests and they're going to let me know in about three weeks, but I may need a bypass. On the other hand, it may be that they can just control everything through the drugs, and certainly I need to lose weight, but then I knew that already, it doesn't come as news, but it's a wake-up call, so... As I say, I hope very much an operation won't be necessary because, apart from anything else, it would not be possible for me to have it in France because Sarkozy has changed the rules and unless you have been, if you're an ex-pat, unless you've been paying into the French health insurance system for a minimum of four years,

2:30 And have been resident in France, in fact, for slightly longer than that, I just missed by about two months, you can't get a carte d'etat, which means that although you can get drugs and things, you can't have an operation in the French medical system unless you have private insurance, which, of course, or unless you can afford to go private, which is obviously a card. So I would have to go back to the UK to have it. And then to make life even more complicated, it turns out that the regulations in the UK, which I had no idea, say that if you've been resident overseas, if you've been resident out of the UK for more than three months, you automatically lose your right to be treated in the British system either. Yes, it's incredible, isn't it? You only have to live out of the UK for three months to lose your right to be treated in the NHS, even if you've been paying into it your whole life. I mean, there are ways round this, I've discovered, but it essentially means you have to go back to the UK and pretend that you're living in the UK. So, for all those reasons, quite apart from, obviously, the medical aspect itself, I'm hoping very much indeed that they tell me the operation won't be necessary. I have a kind of gut intuition that it won't be. The drugs they've given me seem to have brought the symptoms very well under control, but of course I don't really, I have no way of knowing until they do the further tests. And I think the French particularly have a tendency to go for surgical intervention when it's not necessary, so I think I, even if they say to me that they want me to have it, I'm going to try and get a second opinion. But right now I... Yeah, however, I'm certainly doing all the other things they told me to do. As I say, getting my blood pressure down and starting to lose weight. And anyway, fingers crossed it won't be necessary. But I'm sorry, those are my words. That's not what I wanted to ring you up about. The reason I wanted to ring you up were a couple of things. First of all, before all this.

5:00 When you hit me about a month ago, I just sent you an email. You mentioned that you were going to be busy transcribing some of those DVDs recordings that I had made. I couldn't help feeling that that is certainly very useful and important, but nonetheless essentially very... Very dreary and essentially secretarial task is an appalling waste of your time, energy, and gifts, and that it would be a lot easier if an archival task like that was undertaken by somebody whose, dare I say it, whose time and gifts are perhaps slightly less valuable and important than yours. Well, it's an incredibly... I know from having done these things myself, it is rather a tedious thing and not one that I would want you bald people to be, you know, to be having to spend your time on. I've, in the last month, actually partly as a result of this wake-up call that I've had over my health, I've started to make various arrangements for this archive of recordings that I've been accumulating over the years. ...and for my library. And I'm in the course of forming a trust, which, in fact, I've got trustees lined up and all the proper paperwork for it to be registered as a charitable foundation, both in the UK and France, and the intention is that if anything happened to me, I would leave all the recordings and my library and any other assets that I have. You know, two executors, too good for a cause of unified science, but as part of this I'm going to apply, and I've been told there's a very good chance with the trustees that we've appointed, who include Michael Redhead and Chris Isham and a couple of other quite heavyweight names, that we could get some funding from the Belgian Royal Academy.

7:30 And part of this funding would be for a project for transcribing a proportion of the most important recordings, which would certainly be amongst those would certainly be all the recordings I've made of your talks over the years since 1989, since Cambridge, and of the various discussions that we've had both here in Fougere, you know, two years ago with Angus and Colin and John and Pierre Cartier, and in various other places. And that was something I wanted to talk to you about in Patras, actually, if I can get there next month. What I was thinking of doing was to... I wanted to bring along, in fact, a list of all the stuff of all of your talks and other material that I've recorded in the last almost 20 years now, and to go through it with you and to get your opinion as to what the priorities should be in transcribing it. Obviously to get your reaction to looking through some of the material, but are you definitely coming to Patras because I was hoping very much we could maybe get time to talk a bit about that when I get there. I've had a bit of a problem with them. I've sent them three messages now by email asking to register within the deadline, but I've never heard anything back from them. Do you have a name for one of the local organizers or a phone number? Do you know how to spell that? I've got that. I can probably Google and get a... Well, as I say, I sent three emails to the number that they had on the site for the meeting, but never got anything back. So I've no idea whether I've registered or got a hotel room or anything.

10:00 Well, they don't seem to be terribly good at, as I said, responding to messages or seeing correspondents. All right, well, it sounds like he's an excellent guy. It's probably just that, for whatever reason, he hasn't seen the messages. I'll try contacting him directly. I don't know, who is he? Unfortunately, at the moment, I can't go online because my internet connection is down. But, you know, I'll try and get hold of... I'll try and go to an internet cafe tomorrow or Monday and... I'm in Fougere now, yes, I left home, yeah. In fact, that's exactly what I'm doing now, is going through the list, compiling. In fact, I haven't been labelled, you know, checking to see when they were recorded and what you were talking about. So, yes, I certainly will have a complete list by the time I see you in Patras. I think I have... I think I have reasonable experience of that over the years.

12:30 Especially in extracting information from your talks, and of course it's not just the talks, but of course all the discussions as well, as we had conversations with Cartier and with John and Colin, where actually I would have said, you know, you were most eloquent. Well, that's, of course, that's why you need good quality recording. That's just a technical problem to become, in terms of position. And that was very, very kind of you. I'm still hoping that something might come out of that. John Stachel has contacted me a couple of times to say that he'd like to encourage you to, if possible, to write up your talks, and Lou Kaufman is still talking about the possibility of producing a book about the impact of Grotendieck's work, possibly under the title of Conceiving Space, in which he says he's got... The go-ahead from the University of Chicago press to produce a volume, but as I say, perhaps that's another thing we could talk about in Patras. I have my reservations about the University of Chicago for all sorts of reasons. On the other hand, it would be a very good thing if something permanent could come out of that. By the way, on the subject of recordings, Alberto told me that your talks in Udine, sorry, not in Udine, I should say in Como, were recorded by Bob Walters, and I was wondering, I actually wrote to him about that, and he said that he would need to get back to you for permission to send out a copy, but would it be possible for you to give him permission to send me a copy?

15:00 Right. Well, he wrote to me to say that that's what he was doing, so I imagine they're on their way to you. Well, we can always take out anything that's unacceptable and tidy it up. I mean, as I say in the transcript, that's one of the beauties of transcribing things, that you can tidy up wording and improve formulations. This was where Gore delivered his famous lecture. That's right. Yeah. Yes, gosh, I'd love to see that. Whereabouts is that? Obviously not in the Villa Olmo where we had the category theory meetings, but in another... That's right, that's mentioned on his website. I meant to go and look at those. When I get back online, that's one of the things I mean to do. I saw there were some pictures there which I didn't actually have time to look at. As soon as I can get back online, I will have to look. That sounds smelly. Well, I'm glad it went so well. Alberto said that it was a magnificent meeting.

17:30 I was going to ask you, how is he? Because I haven't spoken to him for a while. Yes, I gather that Francesca is very unwell again. Such an awful tragedy. You've said it yourself, but religion has so much to answer for in terms of causing individual as well as collective misery. No, none whatever. I really feel very bitter, personally bitter about that. I mean, quite apart Hostility to religion as such, especially that particular brown. Ah, yeah. Well, anyway, I do hope that Bob Walter's recordings come through. Do let me know when you've had a chance to vet them, because I really would very, very much like to listen to them and see them. So, with a bit of luck, I will see you in Patras. Ah, in what way? The discussion wasn't as wide-ranging as you would like it to have been. Well, next time we'll just have to schedule three hours for you and three hours for the discussion, or maybe even have the discussion on a separate day, if I'm doing it. But next time, and I say, I really am hoping we can arrange another meeting before too long, perhaps with you and Pierre.

20:00 Yes, that would be a good idea, I think, to have a whole day set aside, especially for discussion, after the talks. By the way, somebody told me that you're going to be coming to Brussels later this year for this meeting in honor of Francis Brosseau. Is that right? Do you know what the dates are of that? Because I'd like to put that in my diary. Do you know what the dates are of that? Because I'd like to put that in my diary to keep it clear. Do you even know which month it is? It's October, right. Okay. Well, you don't need to do that now, but if you get a chance, perhaps you can just send me an email on that. Oh God, is Benabu going to be there as well? Who invited him? I suppose he is, yes, because he was Erisman's pupil, a student, wasn't he, in Lille, sorry, in Amiens and in Paris. It's really very sad what has happened to him. I mean, he... I think there were some very interesting ideas there at one time, but that's it. Anyway, it can't be any worse than it was when... He was in Paris this previous October, so let's hope he's calmed down a little bit since then. But do please let me know when you've dug out the dates for that, because I'd like to stick that in my diary just to make sure I saw that. There's the ICTC thing in Calais, 22nd of June. You're going to be at that as well? Oh, that's good. Well, I'm certainly going to come to that, because that's pretty easy for me to get to. It's quite convenient. Okay, look, Bill, I'll see you in Patras, hopefully, in about a month's time.

22:30 Yeah, yeah, so do I. I'll let you know if I have any news to report, if they tell me, well, if they tell me one way or the other. Oh, I certainly will if they say I do have to have, but as I say, I'm trying not to worry about it, and as I say, the medication they've given me seems to be working very well at the moment, so I'm just hoping that it won't be necessary. Okay, thank you, Bill. It's always good to hear you. And a great big hug to Fatima. Okay. Okay. Look forward to seeing you in Patras. Hi, Alberto. Yeah, I've had a few problems, but they're not, you know, they're not as, I hope I didn't make them sound worse than they are. In fact, I've had some good news, even just in the three days since I spoke to her. It looks as if I probably will not have to have an operation. They think they can control the problem I've got with medication. I must also lose weight, but I knew that already. The only problem is the medication is almost 200 euros a month per course of treatment. And the problem is I can't claim it back because... I can't get a carte vitale because I haven't been living in France long enough or paying into the French. But on the other hand, it would be a much worse problem if I had to have an operation because I would have to go back to England and God knows how long it would take me to get into the system there. Um, you know, I'm just looking on the positive side. It looks as if I almost certainly don't need to have the operation, but I'm much more concerned about how things are with you.

25:00 Um, Manuela was telling me, it does sound you are having a terribly, terribly, terribly hard time at the moment. I'm so sorry because last time we talked, you know, I thought she was beginning to take a turn for the better, but it seems she's gone backwards. It's an absolute nightmare. I mean, I just can't begin to imagine how is, I mean, how is she coping at the moment? I mean, I suppose, you know, her whole life is on hold. Is she at home with you now, or is she, well, she won't eat, that's the problem. I do hope she won't eat. Please give her my, and, you know, I'm thinking of you and Hanwella as well, but, oh dear, I just wish there was something I could...

27:30 You tend to have very strong principles and, you know, moral and rational, but because she feels she's being judged, the trouble is, her basic problem is that she doesn't feel herself, you know, to be worth anything as a person, which of course is absurd because... I mean, she couldn't be a more wonderful, kind, and loving person, and potentially, you know, in a wonderful position, especially with parents as drastic as you and Bella, to do very good things with her life. But the trouble is, when you're in the grip of something like this, you just have to stand outside it and see yourself in that light. Have they got to the bottom of what happened? I mean, don't talk about it on the phone if you don't understand. You don't think that is so important?

30:00 is she still is she still kind of involved with that oh she is i see oh dear i thought she she kind of broken with them when she came back for you uh that makes it that makes it more difficult but as far as this uh this this this dreadful refusal to eat i i just don't understand where it comes from she's um terrible because you know she has so much to live for and everything and um she must You know, she's a kind, I mean, I say, please, this is probably not something that can be spoken about, but please, please, please believe me, I think of all of you, you know, all of you, and Gregorio as well, because I'm sure he's, you know, being as good. Um, Bill told me that, you know, he'd spoken.

32:30 He said, by the way, how much he enjoyed seeing you in Coburn, and what a good discussion. He said that you were the main motor of all the questions in the discussion session. I'm hoping I can actually get to hear those, because Bob Walters made these recordings, as you know. But until Bill has actually listened to them and vetted them, of course, he won't let anybody else listen to them. You know what he's like. Manuel, I've probably told you, I'm going to be coming to, I'm actually going to be going, excuse me, to this thing in Greece, in Patras, the Sheaves and Logic meeting, where Bill is speaking, but also where they're having a discussion. Well, they're having us, it's in honour of Anders Koch, as you may know. They're having a special meeting in his honor for his 70th birthday. I can't believe it's 70, it seems. I've managed to find actually a very nice way of getting down there. I have a few days free at that time. God knows, I think, well, I wanted to go there, it was the three-day meeting. But what I'd love to do would be to come down and spend a day or two with you in Firenze, if that's possible. But I don't want to intrude with all the problems you've got, it's been so long and there's so much, of course, there's so much I want to catch up on, you know, talking to you. Well, what I'm planning is to travel on the ferry from Ancona. There's a ferry from Ancona to Patras overnight and it's actually very cheap, it's only 36 euros. That's if you take a kind of couchette, which is fine because it's only a day's journey.

35:00 I would love also to stop off at Albino on the way, and also because I've never been to Albino, because everybody says what a beautiful place it is. So I was thinking I'll probably be coming through Florence. I'll need to check very carefully, but I think probably sometime around the 17th or 18th of March. Would that be convenient for you? When is Easter? Easter is very early this year. I think it's the following. I think that's the problem. I think it may in fact be the Easter week. Hang on a second. I've got my diary. Just give me a second. I'll figure it out and check. I know that that's one of the reasons why I... one of the main reasons I'm taking the ferry is because it's the only way of getting to Greece cheaply because the cheap flights are impossible at that time because of Easter. Just hang on a second. Let me... Easter can't be any earlier than the 21st of March, surgically, so just let me check, but I know it's very early this year, hang on a minute, the meeting, the meeting, um, geometry is, is actually from the 20th of March, now 21st of March is not Good Friday, so it must be a little, wait a minute, no, it is 23rd of March, that's as early as it can be, but Good Friday is the 21st, that's, that's, um, yeah, very, very early this year. Well, that is actually the Easter weekend, then, that they're having the meeting. At least I think it is. No, PAP, yes, that's right, it is. How extraordinary that it doesn't say that... No, it does, yes, it does look as if Easter... Hang on, just let me check. Does it say that the previous Sunday is Palm Sunday and then I will... Yes, Rameau is Palms, isn't it, in French? So that must be Palm Sunday. Yeah, no, it is. In fact, that's the week before Easter, which is probably not a good week for you.

37:30 The problem is, I would, I'd like to do it on the way back, but I have to be back in Paris by the 26th, which would mean it would be terribly, it would be a terrible rush on the way back. I probably wouldn't be able to see more. Well, that's what I need to work out. The ideal time for me would probably be the Monday or Tuesday of that week, the 17th or the 18th. When do you actually break for Easter? I assume there is a short break for Easter. On Tuesday the 18th. Okay, well, that would suit me perfectly. Why don't I arrive on the Tuesday? And then we could spend a little time on the Wednesday together, which would be great, and then I can travel to Patras, I'll have to check the ferry times, but I'll need to get to Ancona, but I think there's a reasonably good train service from Firenze, and yeah, yes, if I come on the 18th, that would be perfect. I'll double check, but I think the 18th would be the day. Is there a hostel or accommodation or anything like that at all at the university that I could stay in? Because I'm so, and to be honest, I'm so poor these days, it's very difficult for me to afford even cheap pension. It'll be murder, it'll be murder. Don't try too hard, you've got much more important things to worry about. I can probably find, you know, some kind of a hostel accommodation just for a couple of nights. I'll try and come down, I'll probably come down on the Monday, and as I say, see you on the Tuesday. I'll have to check on the ferry tires, but yeah, it looks like the Monday, Tuesday, maybe the Wednesday morning.

40:00 Okay, I'll give you a call when I know for certain. In the meantime, I really am thinking of you all very much indeed. I only wish that there was something more of it. Anyway, I will be able to see Francesca while I'm down there, won't I? Just to say hello. Well, uh... Depends on her, yeah. Well, I just would like to let her know, you know, how much so many people are... You know, she must know that already if that was going to make a difference. Your, you know, caring concern would already have done it. Anyway, I do so much hope that things take a turn for the better for you soon. Yeah. You could come and stay for a few days here in Puget and bring Francesca and Greg as well. It's still a permanent offer whenever you want to come. You really should because there's lots of space here. I don't know how much longer I'll have the house, but you should have it at least for another year. There's lots of space, it's a beautiful place, very tranquil, and in the summer, very nice weather. Let's talk about it. I'll come and see you next month. Great big hand to all of you, but especially to Manuela. I will. Don't worry about me. Just take care of yourself, all right? I'll see you soon, old friend.